I do not know what I can add. Mike and Terry took the words right from me. Getting that JS and MS were two of the proudest days I have had. A lot of hard work, hair pulling, and sweat went into those achievements. Be prepared to put in long days in the shop. Be prepared to attend a Hammer In and listen to the JS and MS critique class, take it to heart. Be prepared to go see Mastersmiths and maybe be disappointed when they critique your knives. The main thing is to use all the resources you have available, such as this forum, Hammer Ins, JS and MS makers, and above all ask questions.

Brion

I forgot to add. As Terry said, I feel I owe the ABS and all the people who helped me to pass it on. I have a phone number and e-mail and I will answer.

Brion

The dagger discussion has, in my opinion, has been well covered in this thread, so I won't try to add anything to that.

When it comes to the issue of knives to submit for JS judging, I'd like to weigh in. I tested for my JS twice. Once in 2005 and again in 2007.

I failed the JS in 2005. My knives didn't pass due to lack of quality workmanship, not because of the chosen style of the pieces. And, looking at them with a more critical eye following the judging, I have to agree with the judges. My work was not to the ABS standard.

Over the next 2 years, I concentrated my efforts on generating knives of excellent workmanship (See Ed Caffrey's post above). And in 2007, I returned to Atlanta and received my JS. While the judges all approved of the quality of the work, they were not in agreement on the style of one piece. However, because all pieces were of consistent workmanship, the one piece was recognized as a style choice. My emphasis was on consistent, clean quality, not necessarily on building "ABS knives". I believe I was able to balance the requirements of the test with my own personal aesthetic choices.

Dee Hedges received her JS this year. Her JS suite is currently in the Forum Gallery. I would recommend you look at it. Dee's work probably does not fall into the ABS "mainstream", but is of the very best quality she is currently producing. The work she chose to present is straightforward, clean, and well executed (and not at all like some of the amazing pieces I've seen her do!)

Mike Rader (who received his MS this year) took some risks for his JS pieces. He submitted 2 daggers, and at least 1 integral bolster piece. But again, the quality of work was what made this a JS suite, not the style of the pieces.

If you want the ABS stamp, you need to follow the guidelines, and pass the tests. You should always strive for excellence and to improve your work, whether you chose to work through the ABS or not.

Geoff

(Due to my injuries, Marianne is acting as my secretary for this post..... She has 2 working hands - I'm so jealous!)

Hello Good People!

Thanks for all your thoughtful feedback. I just want to restate, that I in no way meant to sound challenging or condescending. I have the deepest respect and appreciation for the work and folks of ABS. I was simply seeking clarity, as I had heard various bits and pieces, some of which nearly contradicted each other. I guess I should admit, that as a member of an association in America I do tend to believe in a certain right (or even duty) to seek clarity and to express my thoughts and hopes as relates to said membership. I suppose when I do that, I should be prepared for the occasional "if you don't like it, don't play with us" type of responses. I am dearly glad that that is not the party line of this organization and that my fledgling efforts at making inquiries and expressing myself have been responded to so sincerely and candidly. Again, thank you one and all!

On another note, I cannot find Dee Hedges' JS photos in the forum gallery, nor elsewhere. I would certainly like to view those.

Also, I especially appreciate master smiths' willingness to view and critique candidates' knives. What a GREAT offer. One I hope to take you up on in the near future.

All the best, Phil

Gday Phil,

the photo of Dee's knives are in Announcements>>2010 Master and Journeyman Smiths thread.

Cheers Bruce

Phil you can also find the gallery picture here <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmiths.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

I can't help chiming in on the function aspect of this discussion. I'm not a skilled enough smith to make anything I please at this point but I have spent my life using a knife day and night literally. On an average longline trip I will dress around 30,000 lbs of halibut...if a knife doesn't have a blade that drops below the ricasso portion you will flat wear your knuckles off. While I like to make knives with press-fit guards also if you're talking absolute function in my opinion you can't beat a full tang, no real ricasso, with a dropped blade that protects your fingers in absence of a guard. Rounding the corner on the very back/bottom of the blade keeps it from catching on your back stroke whether your up inside a fish, deer or anything. When you find yourself cutting things around the clock if doesn't make it go faster or stop faster you'll find yourself reaching for a different knife. That's my two cents worth anyhow...great discussion!