Joshua: I can't offer much experience with welding 1095 into a damascus billet.... I messed with it a few times, didn't like the results (the billets with 1095 didn't "hold together" as well on complex manipulations, and I always seemed to get more heat treat warpage out of damascus made with 1095/15N20, and went to 1080/1084 along with the 15N20, and got much better results overall....so that's the mixture I've stuck with for most of my career.

Jo: For the performance test blade/knife, think about what you're doing with the knife, and choose a handle material that lends it's strengths....in this case you're going to be building a full tang knife, so my recommendation is to use the toughest, most durable handle material available to you (ie: Micarta or G-10) Don't "web" the tang all out like some folks do, and only use the minimum size and number of pins necessary for the job. "Webbing" out the tang just makes it weaker, and more likely to break during the bending portion of the test. Likewise with too many, or too large pins. Micarta or G-10 will lend some added durability to the tang.

When it comes to presentation knives, the way I see it an individual can do one of two things....either go for the stamp, or go for awards. In other words you can play it relatively safe by going for the just the stamp, or you can "lay it all out there" and try to win awards. Of course there are ups and downs to both sides.... if your goal is the stamp, use materials that make things as simple/straight forward for yourself as possible..... remember, its much simpler and easier to get a fantastic finish on a nickel silver guard, then it is a steel guard.....and if you blue that steel guard, then have an "ooopppss" during finishing/touch up, you're basically going to have to start all over. When it comes to the awards, historically they have always been won by individuals who did not go into the test seeking awards....but rather made simply designed knives with superb fit and finish. I guess if you're supremely confident in your ability to win the awards, then go for it....but if there is even a shred of doubt, stay focused on the stamp, and the rest will take care of itself.

You want to use nice handle materials, but think about the ins and outs of the materials you choose. Buffalo horn is something I wouldn't use....its nothing more then compressed hair, and anything that you've ever seen a woman's hair do on a "bad hair day", can happen to horn material. You can get it all finished down nicely in your shop, then show up in Atlanta or KC, and the horn his either shrank or expanded....possibly even checked or split, simply from the changes in humidity and/or altitude. I also discourage potential JS applicants from using stag for handles.....especially in a hidden tang design. The curve(s) in a piece of stag, unless VERY CAREFULLY installed, can make other aspects of a knife look "off"..... the judges have no "tools" in the testing room to measure, mic, or anything else. We use our eyes, knowledge, and experience. If something on a knife doesn't "look right" we tend to dig deeper, seeking the reason....and that often brings to light glaring issues.

Probably the biggest mistake I've seen individuals make over the years as a judge at the JS level, is people who think they can "impress" the judges by trying to do something that is beyond their current skill set, and they do it poorly. Remember who is going to be judging the knives.... Mastersmiths who have likely either done or tried anything you can think of. Frankly, whenever I am a judge, the majority of my judging is done from 5 feet away, meaning that I look at the knives laid out on the table, and can almost immediately know whether that individual will pass or not based on whether my eyes are drawn to or repelled from what I see. I still look each knife over carefully, but it's pretty amazing what can be seen from a short distance. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> What does impress judges at the JS level is a knife that is simple in design, yet executed to the Nth degree. The words I use to describe it are "Super Simple, and Super Clean".

In conclusion, my advice is to create simple designs, that are very well executed, with excellent fit and finish, using materials that make creating those knives less taxing and stressful then if you were to chose materials that are more difficult to work with/finish. Its really more common "knifemaker sense" then anything....think about the designs and materials that have given you problems in the past, and DON'T use them. Building your JS or MS presentation knives if no time to be "experimenting" with methods or materials that you are either unsure of, or unfamiliar with.

Personally Jo, I would prefer a selection of handle material, not all the same. It shows your versatility as has been said. As far as bluing goes, it looks nice if done very well and makes a good accent for your blade. But as Ed says if you are not comfortable doing it, don't. The majority of award winners at the JS level are simple, VERY clean knives. I would also agree with Ed about the horn. Atlanta is pretty humid and the horn may swell or change dimensions and really cause problems. Walnut is good as is ironwood. You might check out some of the stabilized woods too.

And yes two of the knives must be at least six inches blade length.

Brion

Actually Ed I have not had any real problems with 1095. I get nice hamons with it. However, the 1095 I use comes from one source and I have seen the certifications on it. I use Aldo's 1095 and it is good.

Brion

I almost mentioned Aldo in my post...and probably should have. I know how Aldo gets his steel "to order", so I would trust anything he offers. It's too bad that he is the "exception", rather then the "rule". <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

It's off subject, but am I the only one who's noticed that over the last decade or so, getting "quality" steel, of almost any variety has gotten tougher and tougher? Maybe that's because I didn't pay close attention in my "younger" days, but it seems that every time I order steel these days, it's always a crap shoot..... I suppose I should take my own advice and just buy EVERYTHING fro Aldo. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

I am so thankful for you insight!! As to handle materials. My next question about the woods I am going to use. I use stabilized for most all my handles. The only untreaded wood I use is ironwood, or African blackwood. Advise please.

As to winning awards. My father has taught me over many years to do as y'all are saying. Do the best and cleanest job you can and don't try to win the awards. If your work is clean and you are confident that you did your best they will come. As master taxidermist I have seen him judge shows and teach. I have seen him do such art work that it makes me want to become a master baldesmith. He once did an African scene with 7 loins in it that was truly mind blowing. I have seen the work that master bladesmiths have done that have left me mind blown in the same way.

The bluing I want to do I have done before and have been really blown away with the way it looks when done. One of the finishes I excel at is a polish finish. A mirror finish is something I have spent years and years on to get right so finish the parts before the bluing is something I have get confidence in. I would love to do a mirror finish on my blades but I know that would not go over well because a hand rubbed finish is much much harder to get perfect and clean.

The only untreaded wood I use is ironwood, or African blackwood. Advise please.

African Blackwood is by far my favorite "natural" handle material. It's super stable, carves and textured exceptionally well, and although a bit more time consuming to finely finish then some other woods, that's a very small drawback compared to all it's other excellent qualities as a handle material. (Just don't confuse it with Ebony....which I don't use, and discourage others from using too. Ebony is like concrete in that....it's not a matter of IF it will check or crack....its a matter of WHEN.)

I also like Ironwood. The only caution I will offer is that if you're not careful you can "over finish" it, and get an "orange peel" appearance (usually comes from over buffing it). It might just be me, but when I see a beautiful piece of ironwood, that has awesome figure, with a "orange peel" look too it, just ruins it for me.

As I mentioned, if your confident with doing something, then by all means do it! (like the bluing). I only mentioned the caution because I've seen far too many examples where individuals tried to do it on their presentation knives, and made one of those "ooppss" things during "touch up". I suspect they didn't have time to repair/replace and tried to "fix" it while on the knife....and it sticks out like a sore thumb. (one more reason to get your presentation knives done EARLY. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

After going back and re-reading this entire thread, I think my best advice would be....

1. Read, and Re-Read the JS testing rules, and make sure you understand them. Don't try to read into, or otherwise add or subtract anything.... they mean what they say, and they say what they mean. (You've done the right thing here by asking questions)

2. DON'T over think the knives you build for the test, or the process. Concentrate on making those types of knives that you obviously already know the judges want to see, and making those knives to the best of your abilities.

I would have to say... the part that trips up more individuals then any other, is the fact that you have to present FIVE knives, and they all must be your best work. MANY times I've seen individuals present 4 knives that would easily pass, but the fifth was obviously "rushed", and the finished product showed it. Remember, if any ONE knife fails, the result is an overall failure. (a prime example of not allotting yourself enough preparation time)

When I tested for my JS, I spent 9 months making nothing other then 5 presentation knives..... and a couple of those were made multiple times. When I came to my MS test, I spent over a year making nothing but those knives (because of the lessons I learned making the JS knives) and during that time I made the dagger 3 times before I was happy with the finished product. <img src=' http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/public/style_emoticons//smile.gi f' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Excellent advice Ed!

Who all is going to be at Blade Show this year? I will be going and I have a couple blades that I am taking and want y'all to look at them. They do not have handles yet but I am more worried about my blade finish than my handle finish right now. Plus it would be great to shake hands and thank y'all in person for all the great advise.

I will be there Jo, at 7P. Stop by and I will be glad to.

Brion

Another question I am wondering about. With the way I have seen that most ABS smiths HT their blades, when I am hand rubbing to finish, I tend to get a hamon to show up. With the performance test knife I do know how important it is the draw the spine down soft, but with the presentation knives if I HT them the same way I will have a light hamon show up. I do enjoy polishing blades to make the hamon really pop but I really don't want that in my judging knives. The concern that doing a HT that is will hand finish out even with not be the HT that the ABS instructs as a best practice.

|quoted:

Another question I am wondering about. With the way I have seen that most ABS smiths HT their blades, when I am hand rubbing to finish, I tend to get a hamon to show up. With the performance test knife I do know how important it is the draw the spine down soft, but with the presentation knives if I HT them the same way I will have a light hamon show up. I do enjoy polishing blades to make the hamon really pop but I really don't want that in my judging knives. The concern that doing a HT that is will hand finish out even with not be the HT that the ABS instructs as a best practice.

Jo, I am not sure I fully understand what you are saying in your last couple sentences, but I can say that the ABS doesn't really have a stance on what heat treat practices may be best. Even I try not to say what is best but rather lay out what the facts are and what the outcome will be for a given practice, based upon the actual facts, and leave it up to you to determine if it is what you want. This is the reason I sort of cringe whenever I hear the word "recipe" in discussing heat treatment.

Anyhow, the only issue there could be with your presentation knives is if the hamon goes wrong, i.e. runs off the edge, is too close to the edge or looks like bad steel or bad finish rather thatn just a hamon. At thtis point it is fit and finish rather than your choice of heat treatment.

Kevin, I too don not like the word "recipe" when I comes to heat treatment. I would rather go with a proven practice that works and not what the recommended heat treat is. Thank you for the insight into this. I will keep the point of cleanliness about the blades I bring for judging. I ask so many questions because I would rather have some insight instead of bringing knives that I think look great but fail badly at judging time.

|quoted:

Kevin, I too don not like the word "recipe" when I comes to heat treatment. I would rather go with a proven practice that works and not what the recommended heat treat is. Thank you for the insight into this. I will keep the point of cleanliness about the blades I bring for judging. I ask so many questions because I would rather have some insight instead of bringing knives that I think look great but fail badly at judging time.

I guess it all depends on what is proven practice and what is recommend heat treatment. Bladesmiths seem to like recipes, especially those starting out, but recipes are rigid instructions on what to do regardless of the underlying why's of it. It is much more important to know why you are doing a specific thing and its cause and effect so that you can adapt and correct things for your circumstances as you go. A proper recommended heat treatment should be based on proven practices, practices derived from the facts of how the material and its chemistry will behave, and verified, quantifiable results. Many folks starting out want to reinvent the wheel and make the learning curve much longer than necessary. The steel industry makes alloys based upon what major manufacturing wants, both have spent many years and countless treasure developing a knowledge base of their materials and properties and not only do they understand how to get the properties they want, they also designed the steel for those properties to be brought out by proven practices. Most proper industrial recommendations are not recipes with set temps but rather guides with temperature ranges so that knowledgeable heat treaters can select what they need for their application. Many newer alloys with heavy carbide formers have much wider temperature ranges rather than specific temps so that heat treaters can choose to accentuate toughness or higher strength. Home heat treaters almost always get into trouble by trying to heat treat any number of steels with the same recipe, rather than accounting for its unique chemistry. Many folks also get sidetracked on what "works", as that is so subjective that it becomes meaningless. Take two opposing properties, one could make a blade that passes the ABS bend test with flying colors but if the maximum expectation in edge holding is only twice through the 2x4... well by definition a knife should cut things before anything else, so edge stability should also be pretty important in establishing what works as well.

I have been learning for some time in dealing with the compromise of wear-resistance and toughness. Trying different ranges of in heat treating has been an amazing wealth of knowledge. My materials classes in college pail in comparison to the knowledge I have gained by testing the theory myself.

One thing I have been told is to stop using and trying so many different steels and to focus on one or two steels only. It is enjoyable to me to have a vast understanding of the steels that are available, because one or two steels won't do everything. However I have of late become very aware that focusing on just a couple steels will help me in the long run. Being able to pull the most performance out of one steel through practice and understanding seems to have opened my eyes to what we are really trying to do here.

Currently I am working on a race knife for the BladeSport cut in Atlanta in June. It is made of CPM M4 Rex. This has been the trickiest heat treat I have every tried. It is a challenge and I enjoy this type of challenge.

I can't wait for Blade Show this year. In the time since last Blade Show my eyes have been opened to a completely different way of bladesmithing and what this craft really means to me. This is the main reason I want to get my stamps.

I would agree with not juggling too many steels at once. Although a steel may have a specific alloy designation, each batch has its own chemistry and learning the quirks and characteristics of each is very helpful. When you find a steel that is really working for you buy as much of the same batch you can afford and then settle down to get to know it really well. Many folks start out wanting to offer a wide list of steels for cutomers to order off like a menu, it sounds cool but doesn't work well in practice. I tried it when I started and it didn't take me long to find two or three alloys that would suit my needs without all the hassle.