jo;

Thick or thin; your ricasso and your plunge lines should be well shaped with crisp lines. Very small pocket knives should have clean ricasso's and plunges. Size is not the determining factor here.

You missed an excellent chance to have your knives looked at the Piney Woods.

At the js level you must have that area CLEAN.

M

In my opinion, the most important thing that a potential JS applicant can do is to get your presentation knives to as many MS for inspection WELL BEFORE you intend to test. Taking that one step further, you can build a knife or two and ask some Master Smiths to inspect them AS IF THEY WERE BEING PRESENTED FOR JS JUDGING. When you do it in that manner, you're going to receive feedback as if those knives are being judged for your JS rating. That will give very specific indications as to whether the thickness (or any other area) is "correct".

In a way, you answered your own question.....

the plunge line and ricasso just don't look as good as they could

That would indicate to me that you should either work on those areas with the current thickness of blade(s) you create, seeking to improve them... OR if making those areas of concern "better" is impossible, due to blades being too thin, practice by building a few thicker blades and see if that helps eliminate your areas of concern.

I cannot stress enough the importance of getting your presentation knives done as early as possible, and having them inspected by as many MS as possible. Doing so does two things.... 1. If there are problems pointed out by the Master Smiths, you have to to correct things. 2. You go to Atlanta or KC with far less doubts in your mind.

Every time I have judged at the JS level, and spoke to someone who failed, my first question is always.... "How many Master Smiths did you have inspect your knives prior to presenting them?" Almost without exception, the replies have been "None." Or some excuse such as, "I don't live close to any MS...and I wasn't going to drive 4 hours to get to one." If someone says that last part, to me it just says that the preparation for JS testing just wasn't very important to the individual. Fail to prepare.....prepare to fail.

Well getting my knives to master smiths is not a problem at all. I want them to be judged before I try to get my stamp. If there was a set of examples that would be recommended to look at which ones would they be in your option.

My plunge lines are very crisp and straight, however they are but large and sweeping like many I have seen at the shows. I am working on a new way of hand sanding them to make them larger.

I have gotten to know many bladesmiths over the years that have been making blades for many many years and only a couple are ABS members or even stamped. They tell me not to mess with it getting stamped. I don't know how to respond to them honestly. I want my stamp, I have wanted it for many years just was unsure about the testing.

Are there any sizes or styles of blades that make showing off my work any better for the judges?

Jo

I have photos of the JS knives that passed and the members that earned their JS stamps in 2015 in Atlanta at this link, click: 2015 JS Presentation Knives in Atlanta

They tell me not to mess with it getting stamped. I don't know how to respond to them honestly. I want my stamp, I have wanted it for many years just was unsure about the testing.

I often am asked the question about "Why should I get my JS or MS stamp?" I think the answer has to come from within. By that I mean it's got to be somethings that YOU do, because YOU want it. If you're doing it to "keep up with the Jones", it generally doesn't turn out so well.

There's no doubt that it's a LOT of work, and a huge time commitment. For me it was never much of a question. Way back when I started out, I saw all the wonderfully impressive work that the Mastersmiths of the time were putting out, and told myself that "One day I want to be able to make knives that are as nice as those".

Whether it be the JS or the MS rating, when you achieve it, you're putting yourself in some elite company. I don't know the exact number of JS we currently have in the ABS, but its a small percentage when you consider the overall number of Bladesmiths/Knifemakers in the world. At the MS level, the numbers are even smaller, hence the company even more elite.

From the standpoint of knife sales, I can only tell you about my experiences. When I was an ABS apprentice, I sold a few knives, with folks always asking when I would be testing for my JS. In many cases I met individuals who simply would not buy a knife unless the maker was a JS or MS. When it really hit me was when I made the jump from JS to MS. Literally overnight, the knives that I had sold as a JS doubled in value on the secondary/Tertiary markets. Probably the most valuable aspect to me when going from the JS to the MS level was the manner in which clients ordered knives. During my tenure as a JS, I would spend huge amounts of time on the phone, going over every tiny detail of a knife order. What I've noticed since achieving my MS is that most orders are placed in the following manner: A client will call or email, with something such as "Hey Ed! I'd like to order a XXXXXX with XXXXX handle material, and keep it under $XXXX.... and that's it. I love those type of orders! It gives me the freedom to create, and when I'm allowed to to that, the client ALWAYS gets the very best work I can do.

I could go on and on about what I consider the advantages of seeking the JS and MS ratings, but the reality is that if it's not being done because its something YOU desire/are driven to do (that drive/desire has to come from inside you) then its a moot point.

One more thing that I think is worth mentioning is the fact that as a member of the ABS, you are exposed to, and have access to the best Bladesmiths on the planet. That doesn't mean the ABS "spoon feeds" its members, you still have to work and do your "homework", but the amount of knowledge and experience that you have access to is simply not available anywhere else.

Jo, Along with the above good, sound advice from Ed and the link to photos from Dan, I would suggest that you examine the rules "Journeyman smith Testing" and "Journeyman smith Rule Changes" closely. I copied the link for you.

My link

Even with the clearly stated rules, you will have a lot of freedom to create knives to your taste. There are some materials and style limitations for sure. Be sure to study the photos on Dan's link. These knives passed JS scrutiny, however, they passed not on style alone but on their high standard of fit and finish. Success to you.

Jo, as far as thickness goes, most blades seem to be around .225 or so, except chefs style knives. Probably because most of our forging stock runs 1/4" thick. I would prefer to see a distal taper in the blade. The main thing is as Mike states, thickness is not really an issue, clean, symmetrical, straight, and great fit and finish are. As far as design, the pictures Dan linked too speak volumes. Good, clean, and functional design. Let me know if you have more questions. Just send and e-mail or call.

Brion

I have been studying a lot of pictures lately, and I am very excited to go to blade this year to do some in depth study. Thank you so much Ed, Lin and Brion for the great advise. My father has been a taxidermist for 43 years now and is listed as a Master in SCI and a few other groups. So I completely understand the elite group that being a JS and MS is. This is one of the main reasons I want my stamps. Also there is a lot of pride in being able to pass a set test to prove your ability, skill and art.

As far as plunge lines go, most of them I grind now are very sharp and don't have much of a radius at all in them. What is the best practice to use with them? Should they have have sweeping radius or does it come down to what my eye show to look the best or is there a set standard to look agaist?

Also I am huge on taking pictures while at show but last year at blade many of the smiths seemed to be put off about having pictures of their work taken. I am taking pictures of the details and close up of the work for study and nothing more. Please advise on how to approach this subject. My father taught me that a long time ago to have reference pictures to work from.

As for my performance test I am sure I can pass that. I have been a BladeSport competitor and I have built a few blades that past the certification process and competed at Nationals with them. I enjoy putting my work to the test and making sure what I product with "make the cut". I am very excited to be competing at Blade Show this year in BladeSport. My last comp knife was made of O-1 and it did ok. Learned so much from that about the performance.

As far as plunge lines go, most of them I grind now are very sharp and don't have much of a radius at all in them. What is the best practice to use with them? Should they have have sweeping radius or does it come down to what my eye show to look the best or is there a set standard to look agaist?

Radius or angled isn't important...the key is EVEN AND EQUAL... that means that each side should mirror the other. Personally, I generally have a radius on my plunges these days, but when I was testing for my MS, I used a carbide file guide. I roughed the plunges in on the grinder, they finished them out with files and sandpaper. You still have to worry about having the edge centered, but with the file guide making sure each was a mirror image of the other, it was simply one less concern to constantly keep in tune with. Although some might consider "little tricks" like that a secret....in reality its all about working smarter....not harder.

Also I am huge on taking pictures while at show but last year at blade many of the smiths seemed to be put off about having pictures of their work taken. I am taking pictures of the details and close up of the work for study and nothing more. Please advise on how to approach this subject.

It's all in the delivery.... if you just walk up to a table at Blade ans say "Can I take some pictures?" you're likely going to get less then an enthusiastic response. On the other hand, if you walk up, stick out your hand, and say "Hello! My name is XXXXXXX, and I'm planning on testing for my JS next year...... I really like XXXX about your knives. Would you mind if I took some pictures to study/help me along?" You might still have SOME individuals who are put off, but if you run into those attitudes, the best thing you can do is just say "Thank You very much!" and move on. In my experience, that type of attitude is from someone who is afraid of you....worrying that you might "take" something that they consider theirs.

As for my performance test I am sure I can pass that.

To the best of your ability, don't leave anything to chance. My recommendation when you build your performance test knife is to build TWO of them....side by side, all the way through. Test one in your own shop, and if it passes, take the other one to use for the actual test.

I have been using the carbide file guides and they have been the biggest help. I just take my time and relax and everything tends to come out great and very even. Thank you for the advise about building the two test knives. I have been working with 1095 for my performance knives but I am thinking about switching to 5160. Any recommendations?

Personally, I always recommend 5160 for JS performance test blades. More people have passed the JS test with 5160 then another other steel. The caveat to that is to use what you are familiar with, that will give you the best chances of success.

1095 doesn't get used in my shop for anything. In the not too distant past, people were having a lot of trouble getting 1095 to harden, and asking me for help. At first I just figured those asking for help were just not listening to what I was telling them.....then it happened to me.

After researching it, and contacting a couple of friends in the steel industry, I learned that the tolerances for 1095 had quietly been "widened" to make it less expensive to produce (read that to say..produce it in such a manner as to make more profit). For most of the world, the changes made no difference, but for Bladesmiths/knifemakers, the changes were significant. The old standard for manganese was .030-.050. The new tolerances according to my sources are .020-.070. What this means is if you happen to get some 1095 from a batch that is on the lower end of those tolerances, you have less then one second on the TT curve to harden it....physically impossible outside of laboratory conditions.

In short, that means that you MIGHT get 1095 that works just fine....but you have just as many chances of getting 1095 that you simply cannot harden. Just my thoughts, but I personally don't have the time to waste on a steel type that I MIGHT not be capable of hardening....so I loaded up the 1095 I had in my shop, and hauled it off to the scrapyard.....and haven't purchased any since.

I don't "bad mouth" the steel openly, but when someone asks a question such as your's, it's an opportunity to spread the knowledge. Were I ever to use 1095 again, I would demand the analysis for the actual batch I purchased.... which is usually impossible, because if you ask most outfits for an analysis, they will simple grab a copy off the internet and send it to you....which doesn't do you any good at all. All that does is tell you what its SUPPOSE to be, not what it actually is. Rather then always worry about 1095, it was a better route for me to just eliminate it from my shop, and use 1080 or 1084.

Interesting news about 1095 Ed. I have also run into more than a few bladesmiths who have had problems with alloy banding in 1095 (mostly from a specific supplier). Some of them have said this problem will auto-correct when using the steel for pattern welding because of the high heat and heavy forging. Any thoughts on that? How about the hardening challenge? Does that matter when using the steel in Damascus? I figure it largely depends on the other steel and its alloy properties.

Another question I have is on handle materials. I am thinking of using figured walnut, desert ironwood and buffalo horn. However I am a bit worried because I have the idea of having the handle materials match on all five knives. What is your advice on that subject. I just want the to look as clean as possible.

Also I read that I have to have at least two knives with +6" blade length. Just making sure I am correct in what I am reading in the rules.

As for guards. I am thinking of using steel do to how I can blue them and really contrast the blade. My father was a gunsmith years ago and knows the old ways of bluing and I think the old Colt screw blue looks amazing. Any thoughts on that topic?

Jo, I do not think having the handle materials match on all five knives is a requirement. In my personal opinion, it would not show your versatility in working materials either, and would not be beneficial to you as a JS applicant. Just my perspective, but there are plenty of JS knife sets out there with varied handle materials.