I recently attended the ABS event at Troy,Ohio.
I was duely and truely impressed with the entire event to include the content of the show, the venue, and the spirit in which the entire event was conducted.
I do however have a comment pertaining to one of the presentations. I am speaking of the event in which MS Joe Keeslar discussed the design of knives in general, and that discussion also touched upon the requirements for knives that are offered up for ABS JS certification. During this particular discussion, Mr. B. R. Hughes was also in attendance, and he was invited to add in his comments on acceptable knife design for that purpose.
During the discussion, Joe keeslar repeatedly stated that anyone wishing to pass the JS certification should present a knife that the judges wanted to judge on....and that it should not be what the maker wanted to make...but should be of a design that the judges wanted to see.
During this discussion, I asked if Joe Keeslars "Brut de Forge" knife would be an acceptable design to be presented for ABS certification. It was at this time that Mr. Hughes chimed in and his remarks were that the presentation should include "five clean knives". He repeated this statement several times.
Joe also went on to say that a makers "style" should not be a part of the knife being presented for judging ... and that if and when he did see such a knife...his immediate response would be to ask what flaw in the knife construction was the candidate trying to hide with his "style".
Here is my problem. I am not a mindreader. By my definition,Joe's Brut de Forge knives were of a "clean" design. I could not detect where his design was an attempt to "hide" or conceal any flaw in his workmanship, but it did display an element of individual style and design. It was determined that the Brut de Forge design was not acceptable for a JS presentation knife.
This discussion left me feeling that I really did not have a feel for what was or was not acceptable...and that the entire process was basically left up to the discretion of the individual judge who was judging the knife at that particular point in time. I don't feel that this is acceptable criteria since it requires the candidate to read the mind of the judging official. It is too vague and open to individual interpretation on both the candidate and the judgeing official.
I think that in an effort to make the entire process fair and without individual interpretation, the ABS should provide one or more pictures of "Acceptable Design", and the candidate should be required to choose from the available pictures which knife he wants to make.
I have no problem with the standards being high...they should be...but there should be no room for individual interpretation for either the candidate or the judges.
Ed:
Welcome again to the American Bladesmith Society. I am glad that you were able to attend the JS/MS Judging Standards class at our 8th Mid America Hammer-In. I am also glad to see that you comfortable enough to ask questions and seek additional guidance on the ABS Forum.
The criteria that the Journeyman Smith Judges are looking for in a JS Presentation knife can be a difficult area to at first conceptualize. In the years that I have been webmaster I have tried to post information that will help JS candidates to see just what the seven (7) judges are looking for when they examine the knives in the judging room. Permit me to point out some information that I have already posted that may provide additional guidance to you and all JS Candidates that read this post.
Master Smith Greg Neely who is the past ABS Chairman and a long time Judge on the Master Smith Panel rewrote the JS Standards that appear on the ABS Website and posted the article “Journeyman Smith Testing†that provides both guidance and sound advice. I would recommend both articles to you.
In the area of defining “Clean†knives I think that Master Smith Neely said it best when he said: “The by-word here is CLEAN! By that, I mean all of the lines should flow properly, blades should be straight, and your finishes should be as impeccable as you can make them. No tool marks, file marks, gaps, or excess solder should be in evidence. No filled and re-drilled pin holes and your grind lines should be even and symmetrical. Pay particular attention to the "shoulders) where your blade flats join the ricasso. This is the first place the judges will look. Please - make your blades straight and make sure the guard, handle, etc. line up properly with the blade. Ovals should be symmetrical, and guards should be centered.â€
I have also posted photos of the presentation knife sets from some of the past successful Journeyman Smith Candidates on the ABS Website, Click: JS Knife Photos
In addition, I have been asking the new classes of Journeyman Smiths to post their views on the testing process and recommendations for future candidates as well as photos of their presentation knives. You can find these articles in the sub-Forum “ABS Master Smith and Journeyman Smith Testing†and specifically at these links, Click: Viewpoints of New Journeyman on Preparing For Testing and Judging and Photos Of 2012 Atlanta Journeyman Presentation Knife Sets.
I hope that this information helps to answer your questions.
Dan Cassidy
Journeyman Smith
Send an email to Dan
Consider this: The rules are clearly stated for all to see. To my way of thinking, the rules are pecisely the way they are to remove as much individual interpretation by the judges as possible. Clean knives are the mark of a good maker with "clean" meaning flat, even, straight, and well finished. It's easier to recognize good OR poor work if it's uncluttered with hammer texture. If "brute" knives or any with hammered texture was allowed to be presented, I would imagine that personal interpretation, the very thing we would want to avoid, would be necessary by the judges. They might not all be familiar with "brute" knives, but they are all very familiar with clean knives.
This website contains plenty of photos and information that allows a prospective tester to study past test knives. The ones that passed, of course. By looking at photos of those knives a person can see the types of knives the judges found acceptable. It is hard to tell the technical aspects from a photo but, remember, they passed the test. You'll also see, that there is no "brute" knives in these photos of test knives. There's nothing wrong with "brute" knives, but they are not allowed as test knives.
One more thing. The judges often call the testers in to the judging room to ask a question about the knives submitted. This is to be expected. Sometimes they ask the maker why he did this or did that. For instance, if 4 of the five knives have choils that are similar and the fifth is vastly different, they might ask why? Or, if the choils are a quarter inch in front of the plunges raising a question about the maker's reason for that. So the judges ask "why?" Some testers will say it's their "style" when it's apparent to the judges that, in actuality, they just messed up and need help in that area. Not always, but enough to mention it in the critiquing classes. It's true, some would call it "style" when it is really poor work.
A lot of thought and reason goes into the test to make it fair and equitable for all involved.
" and that the entire process was basically left up to the discretion of the individual judge who was judging that knife at that particular point in time. I don't feel this is an acceptable criteria since it requires the candidate to read the mind of the judging official. It is vague and open to interpretation on both the candidate and the judging official."
Ed; very good advice has already been posted.
On the average each year of twenty applicants for the js rating, about seventeen recieve a passing vote, three do not. Perhaps those seventeen were able to overcome vague, interpretation, and were also mind readers, but I doubt it.
Clean,professional quality work that demonstrates your ability to do a varied range of styles will pass.
Before there were established rules; the applicants just brought their work; whatever it was. The failure rate was very high.
The rules are there to help you succeed.
With time and experiance, you will develop an eye and feel for the work.I believe it is easy to overthink it sometimes.
Go to shows and look at good knives; and bad. The difference is there.
Mike
Mike Williams
Master Smith
We have a change in our notification procedure.
ABS bladesmiths who plan to be juried for the MS or JS rating at the 2015 Blade Show in Atlanta, GA on June 5, 2015 need to contact ABS Chairman Joe Keeslar at least 30 days prior to advise the ABS that you will be presenting your knives to the Judging Panels. We need to check the ABS membership records in advance and to verify your ABS join date, school attendance date if applicable, dues payment record, and obtain a copy of your Performance Test Certification Form. Chairman Keeslar will then prepare and certify a list of eligible candidates for the Judging Panels.
Journeyman Smith judging is usually held in Room# 103 and Master Smith judging in Room # 104 of the Galleria at 8am on Friday morning of the Blade Show. We will confirm the exact room locations before the June 2015 Atlanta Blade Show.
The Judges have requested that the candidates be advised that “the judging rooms will be closed at 8 a.m. sharp on Friday morning June 5th and no one will be admitted thereafter until the judging is completed.†You should arrive at the judging room early and it may be best to arrive at 7:30 a.m. with your five (5) presentation knives, performance test knife, and original Performance Test Certification Form.
Please contact ABS Chairman Joe Keeslar at email [email protected] or call (270) 752-0030 to advise the ABS of your intent to present your knives to the Judging Panel in Atlanta.
Dan Cassidy
Journeyman Smith
Send an email to Dan
Please remember to contact ABS Chairman Joe Keeslar at email [email protected] or call (270) 752-0030 to advise the ABS of your intent to present your knives to the Judging Panel in Atlanta.
Dan Cassidy
Journeyman Smith
Send an email to Dan
