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Hi guys,

What is the safest container for transporting the five presentation knives? Are applicants allowed to give their knives a final rub down once they have delivered them to the judging room? Or is it out of the bag then leave the room?

Finally, the rules state that no ecthing or primitive finishes are to be used. Does that mean that a blade with s hamon should be nice and polished only, where it would be visible but a dose of vinegar would really make it dance?

Hello Jesse, I have went through many options for travel containers over the years, before and after 9/11, and the best option I have come up with yet is a good, sturdy gun case. The advantage here is that you have to have a lock on it if it is a gun case and the lock can be your own (I never understood TSA locks, I am not worried about that guy I just left out at the curb, the knives are now behind security so it is that guy who has the key to the TSA lock that I am trying to keep honest). The gun case keeps your knives from being damaged, but more importantly they require special attention. You may have to have the cased hand inspected while you watch (a good thing) or you may have to stand and wait for a thumbs up while they X-ray it, but nobody is messing with those knives when they are out of your sight. When the luggage arrives your case will be set aside at most airports and require you to show your ID to claim it. People have asked "won't that draw attention?" Yes it will, special attention, and that is a good thing. Your knives will not just be another sack of stuff that can conveniently vanish. I have been traveling with knives, and often swords, for over 25 years now and the gun case is the best method I have found, I have not had any unwanted results from it and have even handed out quite a few business cards to hand inspectors who loved the knives.

On to the judging room- if by rub down you mean removing smudges and finger prints with a cloth, I guess you may have time for that, but if you mean any type of polishing, not only wouldn't you have time, it would be inadvisable; you really need to be entirely finished working on those knives the day of the judging or you are flirting with disaster. If you get there on time you may have a couple of minutes to set your stuff out and perhaps chat with folks, when it is time for you to step out, believe me we will let you know.

You should get input from more than one possible judge but I think some common sense applies to the etch thing. Etching and other effects can be used to cover flaws and this is the concern. If the etch is very light to bring out steel features in a well done manner I don't think it would be a problem, but the etch has to be even and very subtle- in other words I want to look at the knife and say "wow, look at that hamon!" and not "Yikes, look at that etch!... and is that a hamon under there?" Once again, follow this up with other MS with judging experience just to make sure.

You can do pretty much whatever you want to your knives right up until the time they close the door at 8:00.

I think what the rules are trying to avoid are the deep patina finishes that literally etch into the steel and will either disguise or eliminate a fine finish.

Etching enough to expose a nicely finished hamon should be acceptable.

Those knives are entirely under your control until you are asked to leave the room and judging begins.

How you protect your knives to the show is pretty dependent upon your mode of travel.

Many, at least, place each knife into an individual zippered, padded case.

I agree with the above advice. Just get them ready and be prepared for the test. Don't rely on any opportunity to work on them in the judging room. Probably is not a good idea to do that other than wiping the oil off and laying them on the table. I would have a table cloth of sorts so you are laying them on something you approve of. A business card would be nice to see as well but that is not required. You might practice these steps at home short of risking any damage to the knives.

There is one thing you should not do. Please do NOT allow anyone else but a FEW (if any) chosen Mastersmiths to look at your test knives once you commit to use those 5 knives for the test. Unintentional things can and have happened, but it will be your responsibility.

Best wishes for a successful test.

Good topic, especially on the etching.

Another question, if I may, I know that damascus of any kind is a no-go but what about wrought iron? I don't recall seeing anything in the rules about it. Would etched wrought iron fittings be frowned upon?

I'm more just curious than I am about seriously considering using wrought iron, at this point.

Thanks guys, Kevin that's a great idea r with the personal lock and special attention to the case. The extra time it would take at the airport would be well worth the piece of mind that my knives were safe.

Karls zippered padded individual case inside of the hard locking case plan sounds like something i could down with being up for.

And for the rub down i absolutely only meant removing a smudge or what have you that may have found its way onto a knife, i fully intend to not have anything work related left to do to them by that point.

Lin, you mentioned wiping of oil. Is there a favorite oil that you like to coat your blades on for extended storage or traveling?

And is there a list of the masters that have judged or if it's allowed to be known possibly this year's judges to be? ?

Thanks again

One of my JS test knives had a lightly etched hamon and I received a passing grade by all of the judges. The most important thing is that the blade has a very clean and uniform finish. A splotchy, uneven, or coarse etch, however, would likely cause problems.

John, since wrought iron tends to have a pretty coarse and uneven grain, it can potentially hide or mask certain fit and finish issues, which is one of, if not the primary reason that etched damascus is not allowed on JS test knives. Therefore, I'd imagine that a deeply etched wrought iron guard would be equally unwelcome in the judging room.

Jesse, I like Balistol but there are several others that are fine.

i don't know who is on the judge list. The list might change from year to year.

I wouldn't think that wrought iron fittings with a fire etch would automatically be disqualified from the JS test, but then again, I wouldn't be surprised if they were. The rules state:

"No etched or "primitive" finishes are desired. You are being tested for your ability to satisfactorily finish the surfaces of your knives. Hand-rubbed or correctly buffed finishes are satisfactory."

The term "surfaces of your knives" could easily be interpreted to extend past the blade to the fittings and handles.

In any case I think that this question should rightfully be directed to the BOD for a determination. Just to be safe. The BOD often issues clarifying statements about testing requirements and restrictions.

Jesse, As for a protective coating for traveling or excessive handling I use a Birchwood Casey product called Barricade. It's available at most sporting goods stores in the gun care aisle. Comes in these little individually wrapped packets much like a Wet-Nap.

Hello all. Kevin's advice on the gun case is a good idea. As for cleaning your knives, yes you can do that. I would not leave a heavy coat of oil on them. The doors open at 7:30 or there abouts, so you will have time to do a quick wipe down. As for fittings, the rule states no damascus for fittings on JS test knives. I have heard and I take this to mean anything that even looks like damascus. Wrought iron when etched can show a pattern, so why take a chance. Just go with good old 416 or blued or browned steel.

Brion

The list of judges change from year to year to make sure that applicants are being judged by the best representation of their peers and not a static panel. We normally aren't notified if we are needed to judge until closer to the show so nobody would have a list this far out. Almost any MS can tell you what to look for but the particulars on what will or will not pass is best addressed with experienced judges. As a judge I have seen things that I would fail but others would grant some latitude, but then I have seen things that I thought were acceptable while it rubbed others the wrong way. It is usually best to find the orneriest, meanest judge you can- no joke, if he thinks it is all right you are probably safe.

I agree with how to transport knives. I know this won't work for Jesse, because he is traveling internationally, but personally, I have a cheap .22 pistol that goes into my knife case (I have an OLD, 3 layer Doskosil hard case). Once the pistol goes in, the entire container becomes a "firearm" in the eyes of TSA and the airlines. What that means is its mandatory for TSA to check the case, with me present, and then I must apply TWO padlocks to the case before turning it over to them. Sure, it takes a few more minutes to jump through all the hoops at the airport, but it worth it for my piece of mind.

Some folks will ship their knives to whatever hotel they are staying at in Atlanta, but I've had bad experiences with that. TWICE, I've shipped my knives to Atlanta, once via UPS, and the other via FedX. Both times I sent them overnight, and spent a stupid amount of money for it, and both time the knives were a full day late getting to Atlanta (which meant I had a table, but no knives to offer on Friday).

There are always some who put knives in their personal, checked bag(s)..... but every year we hear that someone did that, and knives where missing when their bags arrived at their destination.

To respond to the question about wrought iron on JS test knives...

Wrought iron when etched can show a pattern, so why take a chance. Just go with good old 416 or blued or browned steel.

AMEN! AMEN! AND AMEN!!!!

Just flat DO NOT DO IT. Like the others who've answered on this thread, I've been judging at both levels for a number of years... and was there when the discussion of damascus came up on JS knives. It all stemmed for people submitting very poorly made knives with damascus for JS judging, and when they failed, they threw a hissy fit, screaming and stomping..... "But thats damascus!!!" "I made damascus!!!" To the credit of the judges, nobody lost their cool, but I don't mind admitting that when the individual cornered me later in the hall and started ranting, I gave him the old analogy that you can put a gold ring in a pig's nose....but it still a pig. Not long after the rules about no damascus on JS knives came about.

I don't remember who specifically said, but it's stuck with me every since....... If it looks like damascus, then its considered damascus.....and the knives is ineligible for judging. So again.... why take the chance?

Thanks for all the replies on the wrought iron. Those were the same things that I suspected. Again, I was merely curious as I have no intention of using the stuff when it's my turn to present.

Please listen to and follow the sound advice given in this thread by Master Smiths Ed Caffrey and Brion Tomberlin. Both are right on point.

Sometimes a photo is worth a thousand words. I want to also refer you to a thread that I started about the new Journeyman Smiths from last years 2015 Blade Show in Atlanta. Look through the thread and you will see photos of knives submitted by the sucessful JS candidates, click: New Master Smith and Journeyman Smiths for 2015

Use every possible lighting available when finishing your knives. The lights in the judging room are beyond BRIGHT! Any scratches will show up. Apply a nice even satin finish somewhere between 400-800 grit. Check your plunge cuts, that's a big area of focus. Also, your handle and guard alignment to the blade. Felt makes a good table cloth, as it lays flat. Don't forget your test knife, certificate,etc...

Attend hammer-ins, and show your knives to the MS!

Best of Luck!

Bob